Mail 15
Sajan:
28 You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Messiah but am sent ahead of him’. 29 The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. 30 He must become greater; I must become less.”
Here John, the prophet is telling that Jesus is the Messiah.
Friend:
No; John is not telling that Jesus is a God. He only says that Jesus is greater than him. Do you believe everybody above John is God?
Sajan
If you are telling that John is just saying Jesus is above him, then we must accept that Jesus is the son of God, not a human being or a prophet, because, what Jesus told about John is that, John is the "greatest person ever born" in the earth from Women.
Consider a set U to which X and Y belongs. And another set exists V.
Here X=Jesus and Y=John and U = World and V= Heaven.
If X>Y, in U, then there is no condition exist as Y>X in U, since X and Y are unique.
So by contradiction rule of mathematics, only one equation exists, which is X>Y.
However, we can tell that {Y> all the other elements in U} , if and only if X is outside the set U.
Since there are only two sets exists U and V, we will conclude that X is from the set Y and it is from the set V, which is outside the set U. Hence both the equations are satisfied.
John told Jesus is above Him. {X>Y}
Jesus told John is the greatest person ever born in the earth from women. {Y> all the other elements in U}
In order to satisfy the above equations, X (Jesus) should be from outside the set U (World).
Since John is a man from the world and prophet, Jesus must be from outside world, the Heaven (V) and should not be a prophet.
ie, Jesus is from Heaven and he is the only begotten son of the God.
Hence the proof.
Mathew 11:11 (Equation 2)
11 Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist;
John 3:28-30 (Equation 1)
‘I am not the Messiah but am sent ahead of him’
30 He must become greater; I must become less.”
Sajan:
35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
Friend:
Above I explained about the real love.
And this sentence doesn’t mean that Jesus is a God.
Sajan
Father loved the Son and placed everything in his hands. Nowhere in Bible we can see that God gave all his power to a human being. I don't thinks so, that God will give all his power to a human being or Prophet. Even though they are prophet, they faced many of the situations without God's Help. However Jesus' actions were with authority of a Son not a prophet.
Do you think that God will give the right to believe in a Human being, so that the people in the world will get Eternal Life ??
That will become worshiping a Human being and it is against God's Laws.
So we should say that Jesus is the son of God, and more than a prophet.
Dear Friend,
Please read the below passage.
Jesus told this parable to prove "who is He?"
33 “Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place. 34 When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
35 “The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. 36 Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. 37 Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.
38 “But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”
41 “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”
42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
“‘The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;
the Lord has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’?
43 “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44 Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.”]
This passage by Jesus indicates that Jesus is not a prophet and He is the Only Son of God.
Because, the tenants are the people in the world and the servants are the prophets and the Son is Jesus.
Now, at least for God sake you please stop saying that Jesus is a Prophet.
According to your teachings they may be said like that.
They have other intentions behind that.
But truly truly I tell you that, you can't prove that Jesus is Just a prophet using the Holy Bible.
Thanks and reagards.
Part 3
Sajan:
Dear Friend,
Here is Chapter 4 and 5.
Please go through the chapters.
Chapter 4
25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”
26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”
Here Jesus is explaining that I am the Messiah.
According to the old testament, Messiah will come from the God to save the earth from Sin and he is the one and only Son of the almighty God.
If Jesus = Messiah,
and Messiah = God,
then Jesus = God.
Friend:
Here some mistakes are there in your equations. Corrected is given below.
If Jesus = Messiah,
And Messiah = God’s son,
Then Jesus = God’s son; (not God).
It implies that Jesus is a prophet like Adam, Ephraim, Solomon, etc.
(Since Old Testament says all of them are sons of God)
Earlier you told me that ‘son of God’ in Old Testament means ‘Prophet’.
Then what is the meaning of below sentence?
“the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.” –(Luke-3:38)As per your belief, it means Adam is prophet of God, Seth is prophet of Adam, Enos is prophet of Seth,…..
Simultaneously consider the following Also:
“They shall come with weeping; and with petitions will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by rivers of waters, in a straight way in which they shall not stumble; for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.” –(Jeremiah:31:9)As per your belief, it means Ephraim is the first prophet. Then please tell me who was the first human; Adam or Ephraim (You and me know that they both were prophets)
Sajan.
Friend, you should not have enough background in the Holy Bible.
Then too you are trying to prove that Jesus is not the Son of God using Bible, a Book, which is written to prove that Jesus is the Son of God.
My Humble request is that you please study Bible with an Open Mind. I won't tell that you should read the whole Bible.
At least you please read Mathew, Mark, Luke and John fully with an Open Mind.
Then you will not have any doubt on this.
You are correct, that others also possessing the Name Son in Bible.
But that is entirely different from Jesus' son-ship.
It is like you and an adopted child for your father.
Both can carry the name Son. But the meaning is entirely different.
So I am trying to explain this concept a little detail.
The specialties of Jesus' son-ship are:
1. Jesus is more than one of God's chosen people, more than one of His heavenly messengers, more than one who rules on God's behalf on earth, more than one who pleases God, although He is all of those also.
2. Jesus does not become the Son of God, but the Son of God becomes Jesus. Thus Jesus, as the Son, speaks to the Father about "the glory I had with You before the world began".
This is the first and most important thing, you should understand.
Others were normal human beings and at a particular situation, they became the Son of God due to the relationship with the God.
In the case of Jesus, the Son of God became Jesus Christ not vice versa.
3. This eternal Son of God entered into the limitations of time and space by the power of God working through the virgin Mary and was born as a man, called Jesus, in Bethlehem some nineteen centuries ago.
His Birth itself is a proof for his purpose. The purpose was the Son of God should come to the Earth.
4. Similarly, Jesus is not the Son of God because of His mighty works and wonderful words. On the contrary, He does His mighty works and speaks His wonderful words because He is the Son of God.
This is another important fact. Jesus became the Son of God because of his powerful authorized words, he had that thoughts and authority, because he was the son of God.
5. His works witness to His Son-ship. A "son" must be obedient to his "father", doing his will and works, being like him (John 8:37-47).
6. Jesus Himself pointed to His works as evidence of the fact that He is the Son of God:
"If I am not acting as my Father would, do not believe me. But if I am, accept the evidence of my deeds, even if you do not believe me, so that you may recognize and know that the Father is in me, and I in the Father" (John 10:37f.).
Jesus did the works of God, His Father, acting as God would.
7. He was called the Son of God by the Father Himself and by others:
a. The Annunciation: The angel Gabriel told the virgin Mary that her son would be called "the Son of God". (Luke 1:32,35)
b. The Baptism: God's voice from heaven proclaimed: This is my Son, whom I love." (Matthew 3:17, etc.)
c. The Transfiguration: God's voice once again proclaimed: "This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him." (Mark 9:7, etc.)
d. The Crucifixion: The Roman centurion and his men confessed at the time of Jesus' crucifixion: "Surely he was the Son of God!" (Matthew 27:54)
e. The Resurrection: St. Paul writes that Jesus' resurrection from the dead declared Him to be "the Son of God". (Romans 1 :4)
f. Mad men and even unclean spirits confessed to Jesus: "You are the Son of God." (Mark 3:11; cf. 5:7; Matthew 8:29; Luke 4:41; 8:28) .
g. Jesus' disciples also confessed that He is "the Christ (Messiah), the Son of the living God" (Matthew 16:16; cf. 14:33).
h. Jesus, as a true Son, preferred to give glory to His Father, but He too would not deny His Son-ship (Matthew 26:63f.; Mark 14:62; John 10:36).
i. Even Satan (Why can't you Friend? :)): When Jesus was famished after a long fast, the tempter said to Him: "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread" (Matthew 4:3, etc.).
j. When Jesus was in agony on the cross, the passersby mocked Him and said: "Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!" (Matthew 27:40).
8. He is not the son of some earthly king, who must show his might and save his pride by appearing to be victorious in the eyes of the world, according to the world's standards.
9. It was just because He is the Son of the God of love that He would not use His power for selfish purposes but perfectly fulfilled the will of His Father, who chose to reveal Himself and His love to all men through His suffering Son.
Even a casual reading of the verses cited above would show that the use of the term "Son of God" with reference to Jesus is different in both quality and extent from the other uses mentioned previously(About prophets and Kings).
Thus the son of God to Jesus and others are used in different contexts.
The Differences between Jesus and Others were:
Others were graciously chosen by God as His adopted sons;
However, the Son is in the Father eternally.
Others obeyed the Father, though imperfectly;
Jesus the Son obeyed Him perfectly, without sin (Hebrews 4:15) .
Sons should be like their father, but only Jesus was perfect like Him in His goodness, giving Himself completely for Him and His people.
The Father has entrusted all judgment to the Son alone, "that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father" (John 5:22,23).
Only the Son gives life as the Father gives life (John 5:21).
For was the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself" (John 5:26).
The Son is obedient to the Father, with the will of the Father becoming concertized in the way of the Son; but the Father also listens and gives heed to the Son (John 11:41-44).
By believing in Jesus the Son of God, we can have eternal life.
By believing in others we can't have the eternal life.
Jesus, the Son of God can forgive our sins. Only God can forgive our sins I believe.
Others cannot forgive our sins.
Thus there is a sharing of power, authority, knowledge, glory, and kingship which indicates a relationship of equality and mutuality between the Two who are One. I was referring to the relationship of Jesus Christ with God, the father. A normal human being or a prophet can't share the authority and power of God.
"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." (Matthew 11 :27)
Angels, persons and things can reveal to us something about God. But God alone can reveal God! It takes God to reveal Himself to mankind . It takes God to reveal Himself to mankind under created circumstances congenial to human understanding. What better way for the eternal revealer to be revealed to mankind on earth than by clothing His self-expression in human flesh!
In Jesus, His eternal Son, the revealer becomes also the revealed for us. This is why the Holy Bible speaks of Jesus as God manifested in the flesh. In turn, the revealed Son becomes the revealer of the Father among mankind. "Trust in God; trust also in me," says Jesus (John 14:1).
God indeed is greater. To Him alone belong the kingdom, the power, and the glory. He alone is sovereign.
According to the Bible, God is love. In Biblical perspective, by entering into this world, God does not demean Himself; rather He exalts Himself. By His visitation on earth, He does not cloud His glory; rather, He magnifies it among mankind. By His presence among us, He does not become the lesser; rather, He becomes the greater for our greater praise. By being not only above us but with us in Jesus Immanuel, He not only acts in conformity with Himself; even more, He is being Himself and He is being what He will be.
Consider, you have relative, he and his family is so poor and they had made some bad name for the entire family. No one from your family will not go to that family.
But one day you are visiting their home and giving some kind of solutions to their family.
Assume, your father gave this work to you.
By doing this, what will be your father's and your image in that family??
It will increase or decrease?
Will they love you more?
Thus we can conclude like this:
1. The unique Son of God is of the Father eternally; by Him God created and sustains the universe. As God's self-expression He is truly God.
2. Because God loved us, the unique Son of God entered time and space, was born of the Virgin Mary and was called Jesus the Messiah. As God's self-expression on earth in the form of man He is also truly human.
3. The Son shares the attributes of the Father; He is like Him in powerful works and loving self-giving.
4. The Son has been sent by/from the Father as His representative to carry out His work of revelation and salvation.
5. The Son is the Father's personal message, God expressing Himself and His love in a way that can be seen and heard and comprehended by humanity.
6. The Son serves the Father perfectly; the Father is also responsive to the will of the Son.
